Crossover Rules

The following rules, organized according to the 'initiating' or 'aggressive' character type, are meant to cover crossover rulings made by the STs as they come up in game; it is not meant to cover every circumstance and so will be added to as other situations come up. If not specified here, and not covered in a 20th anniversary edition book, ask an ST.

Power Comparison/Clashes
When two different types of supernaturals use powers that conflict with each other (such as a mage using No-Mind to seek out an Obfuscated Vampire, or a Vampire's Dominate working against a command given by a Changeling with Sovereign), the power's level does NOT matter, nor does the Rank or Generation of the characters themselves. Instead, only successes on activation decide which power 'wins out'. In the case of powers that aren't rolled, roll an appropriate dice pool to determine effective successes; Perception + Awareness for a revelatory power like Auspex, for instance. In the case of a tie, the defender wins; if there's no obvious defender, re-roll.

In general, winning against another power does NOT inherently dispel or end it (unless the power says otherwise), except in the case of Countermagic or Unweaving (which use the systems as presented in Mage 20 and individual power writeups). It simply means the winner's use takes precedence for as long as their power lasts.

Nonexistent Traits
Some supernatural powers rely on traits native to their own venue; certain Vampiric powers target Virtues or Humanity, and some Werewolf abilities target Rage, for instance. If no rules are given for when a target lacks the appropriate trait, but they'd still be a valid target, the general rule is to replace a 1-10 trait or two 1-5 traits with Willpower, or a single 1-5 trait with Willpower/2 (round up), as all characters have it. If this doesn't seem to make sense, ask an ST what to use, or if the power even works to begin with.


 * Example: Obtenebration 1 (Shadow Play) requires a target to make a Courage roll or suffer a penalty. A kinfolk lacks Courage, however, and so rolls their Willpower/2 (rounded up).

Supernatural Ghouls
Mages: We use the rules in Blood Treachery: Vitae works as additional Quintessence; A ghouled mage gains 1 dot of Static and Entropic Resonance appropriate to their Domitor; Any discipline dot after the second costs a dot of Willpower for a Mage to learn; A Ghouled Mage's avatar becomes addicted to Vitae after (Avatar rating) drinks, at which point they can only regain Quintessence from Vitae, and can no longer raise Arete or Spheres; After (Arete + Avatar) years, a ghouled mage loses a dot of Avatar, and an additional dot per year, until it's gone, and then begins losing Arete at the same rate, until they're effectively Gilgul'd. A special seeking can potentially end the addiction temporarily and allow a Mage to 'get clean'.

A player with a ghouled mage should keep close track of the number of drinks of Vitae (until addicted) and the amount of time since they became ghouled.

As a note, to break the blood bond with Sphere Magic, you need Entropy 3, Life 4 (+ Matter 4 for a Vampire), Mind 3 and Prime 1, and either Lore or Occult 5 with appropriate specialties, as well as a long period of research and experimentation.

Sorcerers: Sorcerers don't react nearly as badly to being ghouled, but they do gain a dot each of Static and Entropic Resonance. They may use Vitae as Mana if appropriate to their general paradigm. They also, like anyone else, cannot Awaken while ghouled, and a Sorcerer with Struggling Awake loses the benefits of the merit while ghouled.

Changelings: Changelings gain 2 Permanent Banality when ghouled, and generally are rather perpetually uncomfortable with it in their system. Vitae is generally of little use for cantrips, though expenditure of it might work as a Bunk, if suitable for the circumstances.

Kinain: Kinain similarly gain 2 Permanent Banality, but are often less inherently uncomfortable, especially if not enchanted.

Shapeshifters: Any Werewolf or Fera with Gnosis should roll it the first time they're fed Vitae, at difficulty 3. On a success, they're allergic to Vitae and will inherently vomit up any that they're fed, no matter how much, although this doesn't prevent other creative methods like certain rituals or injections.

A shapeshifter that IS ghouled somehow will be Wyrm Tainted if they have any Vitae in their system from a Vampire that counts as Wyrm Tainted (Humanity 6 or less, or any Path), as if by the Taint of Corruption flaw. As a general rule, Ghouled shapeshifters will have difficulties among their own kind and among spirits, and will generally attract the attention of the Wyrm a bit more fully, but this is largely a story concern. In addition, Vitae is a very different energy source from Gnosis and Rage, and similar to how those two interact with each other, may not be spent on the same turn that one of them is used (or visa versa).

Ananasi may not be Ghouled, and gain no benefit or detriment from Vitae.

Kinfolk: Kinfolk can be ghouled normally, but as with anyone else, may come across as Wyrm Tainted as noted above, which is likely to cause them problems among Garou.

Mytherceria
Despite what the Book of Lost Dreams says, Mytherceria 2 (Fae Sight) does NOT inherently make a Kiasyd count as 'enchanted', they simply can see the chimerical and any other evidence of Fae or magic. However, once per night, Mytherceria 2 (Fae Sight) can be expanded upon with a Perception + Awareness roll (difficulty 7), which allows them to physically interact with the Chimerical for the rest of the scene and otherwise act as if enchanted. They do not go into a Mists Coma afterward, as it's not true enchantment.

In general, Kiasyd with Fae Sight will not be so adversely affected by the Mists, since they're constantly aware of Chimerical Reality, but their memories still do become imperfect with regards to Fae matters over time. True enchantment and chimerical death will have the full effect on them, however.

Chimerstry
As mentioned in various Changeling source books, the illusions made by Chimerstry are chimerically real, and will in fact linger in the near dreaming even after the illusion itself fades. These chimera are nearly always incidental, though may be sentient with higher level uses. Incidental chimera will last for about a day per dot the user has in Chimerstry after the illusion ends, and are not under the user's control, but will usually act as the illusion was 'programmed', if appropriate.

Obviously, unenchanted users of the discipline have no way to know this is the case without good reason, but Changelings can sense uses of the discipline within a mile, and know what it causes, with a Perception + Kenning roll (difficulty 6), with more successes making the location and user more specific.

Mage Blood
When feeding on a Mage, Vampires can take Quintessence that is stored above a Mage's avatar rating (via Prime). They steal a fraction of this extra Quintessence equivalent to the total blood they drank from the Mage, always rounded up (for instance, drinking 2/10 blood points would give you 1 out of 5 excess Quintessence). This Quintessence is always spent before Vitae, and works as blood points for that purpose, but each point spent causes a paradox point to be gained as well. This generally backlashes once 5 have accrued as normal, or else bleeds off at the rate of 1 per week.

Mages
In general, How Do you Do That? and Mage 20th cover what magic is needed to affect other Supernaturals quite well, and should be referred to for such things.

The Dreaming
Mind magic is used to affect Fae now, not Spirit, as per Mage 20. Chimera can be affected by mirrors of Spirit spells using Mind instead, if the Mage is enchanted or otherwise has a way to see them.

When interacting with the Dreaming via typical Mage means, such as using Mind 3 to perform Oneiromancy (or a sorcerer using Oneiromancy for the same purpose), or visiting a Demesne, normal systems apply per the Mage books.

When physically traveling to the Dreaming, however, such as by being Enchanted and entering a Rath, or otherwise interacting with it from the standpoint of a Changeling, magic works a little differently. By default, Mage spells cast when physically in the Dreaming will have either weird side effects or will do something else entirely, at the whims of the Dreaming.

However, a Mage that has Gremayre (or a specialty for it in Esoterica) and/or Lore (Dreaming or Fae) can learn to alter their magic to work according to the bounds of the Dreaming. This will generally require a few failed attempts and some experimentation, but after that, they work more reliably, though with +1 difficulty to Arete rolls. However, Paradoxes and Botches tend to be particularly troublesome, as the Dreaming itself tends to dole out the consequences. The Far Dreaming uses the same rules, but might need another period of 'experimentation', however the Deep Dreaming prevents Awakened Magic altogether.

Thankfully (or not), the Dreaming's laws don't always match mundane reality's, and so what might be vulgar in the mundane world isn't always in the Dreaming. More often, spells that are vulgar in the Dreaming are those that alter its laws, the attributes of its denizens (cancelling out a Kith's flaw, for instance, or remaking a Chimera), or go against the rules of the local realm's reality, but it may have other whims.

A mage that 'dies' when physically in the Dreaming is not physically killed, and is instead shunted into an appropriate level of the Umbra (High for most mages, Middle for Dreamspeakers and other shamans) with no memory of what happened, but any chimerical damage healed. They may find their way out normally.